if think this bad should hear my rants

Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Like Venessa Williams says, the Windows Team is saving the best for last. :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message

Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

I truly do wish that they will suprise me.... I want the next windows to be the best OS ever.....
I cant bear the linux fanatics... and what they will have to say...
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Like Venessa Williams says, the Windows Team is saving the best for last. :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate x64 on a 1.6 GHz AMD Sempron 2600 and its not slow and no thrashing of hard disk. (512 MB of RAM also, 10 GB partition. I don't get Glass either, its using on board memory (64 MBs, so Windows gets 448 MBs). -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

sempron 2600 means it is as fast as a P4 2600, right? thats 800Ghz faster than my test machine!
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate x64 on a 1.6 GHz AMD Sempron 2600 and its not slow and no thrashing of hard disk. (512 MB of RAM also, 10 GB partition. I don't get Glass either, its using on board memory (64 MBs, so Windows gets 448 MBs). -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Also depends on what the revised version # you have. The latest update I hear is pretty good. Have not seen or used it though. 5307 from what I have read was a bit sluggish and did run the hd pretty much all the time. Just wait till the Public Beta version.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:

Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:)

I think Thurrott has it right on balance. The work that is still coming down the pipe puts the lie to any claims that Vista has been feature complete in recent builds. With the scheduled new work, and changes derived from beta feedback, there is realistically little time for any of this to bake properly before shipping later this year.
I added my 2c on the Windowsmedia issue to Matt Goyer's page:
I think the changes in WMP11 are superficially pretty, but managing the library became a lot tougher.
It’s been hard trying to analyse the changes since the UI up to build 5243 has been very unstable.
The loss of drag and drop aggregation of tracks in the library does not seem to have been replaced by anything new.
The Album Update feature seems to be unchanged, and there is still little consistency in the naming & display of metadata fields from one part of the UI to the next.
The picture management section is still a mess, particularly in the absence of any separate management UI for images. Why would I want thousands of album thumbnails intermingled with my personal photos?
There’s nothing to help control multi-user access to a shared library media files on a single PC. One user sets update preferences one way, and another sets the other way. Each time they log in, the two sets of preferences fight each other: renaming and rearranging tracks one way and then the next.
Also, we’re still stuck with 2-second gaps between tracks when burning audio CDs.

Build 5308 CTP runs very well on my Sea Gate Barracuda 7200.8 250 Giga Byte Hard Drive (OEM from Newegg.com), however it runs a little slow on my Sea Gate Barracuda 7200.7 80 Giga Byte Hard Drive (OEM from DELL).
"Jason" wrote in message

Also depends on what the revised version # you have. The latest update I hear is pretty good. Have not seen or used it though. 5307 from what I have read was a bit sluggish and did run the hd pretty much all the time. Just wait till the Public Beta version.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

The drive on my test machine is only 15 GB hence it is older technology....
"Kevin John Panzke" wrote in message

Build 5308 CTP runs very well on my Sea Gate Barracuda 7200.8 250 Giga Byte Hard Drive (OEM from Newegg.com), however it runs a little slow on my Sea Gate Barracuda 7200.7 80 Giga Byte Hard Drive (OEM from DELL).
"Jason" wrote in message Also depends on what the revised version # you have. The latest update I hear is pretty good. Have not seen or used it though. 5307 from what I have read was a bit sluggish and did run the hd pretty much all the time. Just wait till the Public Beta version.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

John Jay Smith schrieb:

sempron 2600 means it is as fast as a P4 2600, right?

Well... about as fast as a Celeron 2.6 GHz...
....

Roy

I've seen one of the videos that shows some of the graphics in Linux that a friend on MSBLOG showed me... it seems much faster on half of what the system requirements need to be...
.... but at the moment, I like Vista. :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

I truly do wish that they will suprise me.... I want the next windows to be the best OS ever.....
I cant bear the linux fanatics... and what they will have to say...
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Like Venessa Williams says, the Windows Team is saving the best for last. :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Mike Williams wrote:

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:
Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:)
I think Thurrott has it right on balance. The work that is still coming down the pipe puts the lie to any claims that Vista has been feature complete in recent builds. With the scheduled new work, and changes derived from beta feedback, there is realistically little time for any of this to bake properly before shipping later this year.
I added my 2c on the Windowsmedia issue to Matt Goyer's page:
I think the changes in WMP11 are superficially pretty, but managing the library became a lot tougher.
It’s been hard trying to analyse the changes since the UI up to build 5243 has been very unstable.
The loss of drag and drop aggregation of tracks in the library does not seem to have been replaced by anything new.
The Album Update feature seems to be unchanged, and there is still little consistency in the naming & display of metadata fields from one part of the UI to the next.
The picture management section is still a mess, particularly in the absence of any separate management UI for images. Why would I want thousands of album thumbnails intermingled with my personal photos?
There’s nothing to help control multi-user access to a shared library media files on a single PC. One user sets update preferences one way, and another sets the other way. Each time they log in, the two sets of preferences fight each other: renaming and rearranging tracks one way and then the next.
Also, we’re still stuck with 2-second gaps between tracks when burning audio CDs.

Well I've been testing 32 & 64 bit builds from the 4000's to 5342 and all I can say is what a POS this is turning out to be. I have no idea who is in charge of this train wreck but they need to be fired immediately if not sooner. UAP is the biggest wast of time PITA I've ever run into. It harasses the user instead of protecting them from outside problems. If implemented in it's current form, it will make Vista the most hated OS ever foisted onto the public. Especially when some unknowing person purchases a computer with it already bundled. Somebody needs to stop this train wreck before it's too late! Frank

Personally, I can't wait to purchase this OS. One of the elementary schools in my area is also looking forward to using the software with the new UAP build into it. I can also see your point that it can be annoying, but UAP can be turned off.
I have also ran into problems with older operating systems and family members installing software that shouldn't have been installed. UAP will help protect several familys from these kinds of issues. Don't get me wrong, UAP does have a little way to go, but it is a great start IMO.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"Frank" wrote in message

Mike Williams wrote: Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:
Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:)
I think Thurrott has it right on balance. The work that is still coming down the pipe puts the lie to any claims that Vista has been feature complete in recent builds. With the scheduled new work, and changes derived from beta feedback, there is realistically little time for any of this to bake properly before shipping later this year.
I added my 2c on the Windowsmedia issue to Matt Goyer's page:
I think the changes in WMP11 are superficially pretty, but managing the library became a lot tougher.
It’s been hard trying to analyse the changes since the UI up to build 5243 has been very unstable.
The loss of drag and drop aggregation of tracks in the library does not seem to have been replaced by anything new.
The Album Update feature seems to be unchanged, and there is still little consistency in the naming & display of metadata fields from one part of the UI to the next.
The picture management section is still a mess, particularly in the absence of any separate management UI for images. Why would I want thousands of album thumbnails intermingled with my personal photos?
There’s nothing to help control multi-user access to a shared library media files on a single PC. One user sets update preferences one way, and another sets the other way. Each time they log in, the two sets of preferences fight each other: renaming and rearranging tracks one way and then the next.
Also, we’re still stuck with 2-second gaps between tracks when burning audio CDs.
Well I've been testing 32 & 64 bit builds from the 4000's to 5342 and all I can say is what a POS this is turning out to be. I have no idea who is in charge of this train wreck but they need to be fired immediately if not sooner. UAP is the biggest wast of time PITA I've ever run into. It harasses the user instead of protecting them from outside problems. If implemented in it's current form, it will make Vista the most hated OS ever foisted onto the public. Especially when some unknowing person purchases a computer with it already bundled. Somebody needs to stop this train wreck before it's too late! Frank

Windows XP is better than Linux, the only fanatics that might show off are Mac OS X users, (just my opinion and assumption). -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

I truly do wish that they will suprise me.... I want the next windows to be the best OS ever.....
I cant bear the linux fanatics... and what they will have to say...
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Like Venessa Williams says, the Windows Team is saving the best for last. :) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

I think they threw UAP on everything in Vista, what they are doing now basically is to strain it out based on feedback. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Jason" wrote in message

Personally, I can't wait to purchase this OS. One of the elementary schools in my area is also looking forward to using the software with the new UAP build into it. I can also see your point that it can be annoying, but UAP can be turned off.
I have also ran into problems with older operating systems and family members installing software that shouldn't have been installed. UAP will help protect several familys from these kinds of issues. Don't get me wrong, UAP does have a little way to go, but it is a great start IMO.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"Frank" wrote in message Mike Williams wrote: Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:
Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:)
I think Thurrott has it right on balance. The work that is still coming down the pipe puts the lie to any claims that Vista has been feature complete in recent builds. With the scheduled new work, and changes derived from beta feedback, there is realistically little time for any of this to bake properly before shipping later this year.
I added my 2c on the Windowsmedia issue to Matt Goyer's page:
I think the changes in WMP11 are superficially pretty, but managing the library became a lot tougher.
It's been hard trying to analyse the changes since the UI up to build 5243 has been very unstable.
The loss of drag and drop aggregation of tracks in the library does not seem to have been replaced by anything new.
The Album Update feature seems to be unchanged, and there is still little consistency in the naming & display of metadata fields from one part of the UI to the next.
The picture management section is still a mess, particularly in the absence of any separate management UI for images. Why would I want thousands of album thumbnails intermingled with my personal photos?
There's nothing to help control multi-user access to a shared library media files on a single PC. One user sets update preferences one way, and another sets the other way. Each time they log in, the two sets of preferences fight each other: renaming and rearranging tracks one way and then the next.
Also, we're still stuck with 2-second gaps between tracks when burning audio CDs.
Well I've been testing 32 & 64 bit builds from the 4000's to 5342 and all I can say is what a POS this is turning out to be. I have no idea who is in charge of this train wreck but they need to be fired immediately if not sooner. UAP is the biggest wast of time PITA I've ever run into. It harasses the user instead of protecting them from outside problems. If implemented in it's current form, it will make Vista the most hated OS ever foisted onto the public. Especially when some unknowing person purchases a computer with it already bundled. Somebody needs to stop this train wreck before it's too late! Frank

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:

I think they threw UAP on everything in Vista, what they are doing now basically is to strain it out based on feedback.

I understand UAP will be implemented by default on the public beta. What a joke. I can already hear the outcry! Frank

Personally, I can't wait to purchase this OS. One of the elementary schools in my area is also looking forward to using the software with the new UAP build into it. I can also see your point that it can be annoying, but UAP can be turned off.

So you trust elementary school kids to read and understand the warnings and make the proper decision as to allow something to run or not?
If people think having these messages constantly in your face is going to somehow protect the OS, they're only deluding themselves. And then you're suggesting to turn off the warnings if they get too annoying? How's that going to make the OS any safer?

I think it's a good idea to be honest. We already know from the Vista website what we can expect... and I think it's a good idea that they'll "turn everything on" as standard because then the public gets to see a full and frank sight of Vista.
I do think UAP especially needs a good tweak - especially if you let Administrators have UAP pretty much disabled, it still gives the red shield in the Security Center, that's certainly annoying, but I think it's good that they're being honest about what's to expect and what's to eventually see :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message

Personally, I can't wait to purchase this OS. One of the elementary schools in my area is also looking forward to using the software with the new UAP build into it. I can also see your point that it can be annoying, but UAP can be turned off.
So you trust elementary school kids to read and understand the warnings and make the proper decision as to allow something to run or not?
If people think having these messages constantly in your face is going to somehow protect the OS, they're only deluding themselves. And then you're suggesting to turn off the warnings if they get too annoying? How's that going to make the OS any safer?

Zack Whittaker wrote:

I think it's a good idea to be honest. We already know from the Vista website what we can expect... and I think it's a good idea that they'll "turn everything on" as standard because then the public gets to see a full and frank sight of Vista.
I do think UAP especially needs a good tweak - especially if you let Administrators have UAP pretty much disabled, it still gives the red shield in the Security Center, that's certainly annoying, but I think it's good that they're being honest about what's to expect and what's to eventually see :o)

Yes, because the 2 people who are going to buy Vista with UAP in this condition will want a full and frank understanding of why they wasted their money.

"Frank" wrote in message

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: I think they threw UAP on everything in Vista, what they are doing now basically is to strain it out based on feedback.
I understand UAP will be implemented by default on the public beta. What a joke. I can already hear the outcry! Frank

One of my friends got to test the beta and they hated it. He couldn't get UAP to turn off. I haven't played with it yet but from what I heard it's a pain. When is it going public by the way? This month or not til next or not til June now?

I never said I trust the kids in the school. I would hope to have trust in the teachers and administrators that put the restrictions on the PCs.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message

Personally, I can't wait to purchase this OS. One of the elementary schools in my area is also looking forward to using the software with the new UAP build into it. I can also see your point that it can be annoying, but UAP can be turned off.
So you trust elementary school kids to read and understand the warnings and make the proper decision as to allow something to run or not?
If people think having these messages constantly in your face is going to somehow protect the OS, they're only deluding themselves. And then you're suggesting to turn off the warnings if they get too annoying? How's that going to make the OS any safer?

Jason wrote:

I never said I trust the kids in the school. I would hope to have trust in the teachers and administrators that put the restrictions on the PCs.

ROFL

Zack Whittaker wrote:

I think it's a good idea to be honest. We already know from the Vista website what we can expect... and I think it's a good idea that they'll "turn everything on" as standard because then the public gets to see a full and frank sight of Vista.
I do think UAP especially needs a good tweak - especially if you let Administrators have UAP pretty much disabled, it still gives the red shield in the Security Center, that's certainly annoying, but I think it's good that they're being honest about what's to expect and what's to eventually see :o)

I amazed that the geeks are or will be able to blow this by the marketing people. Frank

I never said I trust the kids in the school. I would hope to have trust in the teachers and administrators that put the restrictions on the PCs.
ROFL

:-)
Bottom line is, security has to be transparent, otherwise your system's already compromised.

Why UAP is a good thing is simple, anything that executes needs permission. Which means both good code or bad code needs your permission. Microsoft is expecting the end user to read the dialogue, think through what they are doing before allowing something that might dangerous to the user. -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message

I think it's a good idea to be honest. We already know from the Vista website what we can expect... and I think it's a good idea that they'll "turn everything on" as standard because then the public gets to see a full and frank sight of Vista.
I do think UAP especially needs a good tweak - especially if you let Administrators have UAP pretty much disabled, it still gives the red shield in the Security Center, that's certainly annoying, but I think it's good that they're being honest about what's to expect and what's to eventually see :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message Personally, I can't wait to purchase this OS. One of the elementary schools in my area is also looking forward to using the software with the new UAP build into it. I can also see your point that it can be annoying, but UAP can be turned off.
So you trust elementary school kids to read and understand the warnings and make the proper decision as to allow something to run or not?
If people think having these messages constantly in your face is going to somehow protect the OS, they're only deluding themselves. And then you're suggesting to turn off the warnings if they get too annoying? How's that going to make the OS any safer?

I'm running Windows Vista Ultimate build 5342 x86 on a P4 3Ghz system with 3 gigs of memory. I have not have a single crash with the OS. And I'm putting it though it's paces having multiple windows up, and really hammering the memory usage. the only issue I have is the aero flip during java used programs. that's it. yes I did a lot of work a rounds. But so far I'm enjoying the software. I even fix other people stuff via remote desktop while I got other stuff going at the same time. Beta testing requires work folks. is it was a prefect running system already, what does MS need you for to test it? Stiff upper lips, Lads! and keeps those feedback going to MS. The RTM's quality depends on you.
"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate x64 on a 1.6 GHz AMD Sempron 2600 and its not slow and no thrashing of hard disk. (512 MB of RAM also, 10 GB partition. I don't get Glass either, its using on board memory (64 MBs, so Windows gets 448 MBs). -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Installed it on a P4 1800 Mhz 512 MB, barebone, no apps on it... and it thrashes the hard disk like crazy...Reminded me of the win98 era!
Not to say that I could not get the glass UI...
Can you imagine what will happen if I install on that platform all the apps I need?
This is my experimental machine I use to evaluate OS and programs.. I installed another 128MB just to see of vista goes a little better...
This is too much..... its too bloated.
I see that there will be a big number of people sticking with XP..
I like advancements and changes... and almost always have the latest and greatest... why does Vista make my stomach tumble? I have a gut feeling that the way its going vista will be a winME flop....
People HATED Windows ME... it was buggy, slow, it crashed.... too many problems.. most of the users formatted and installed win98 if they got winME with a new computer.
"Zack Whittaker" wrote in message Yer know, I see exactly what he means to some degree... but I'm remaining optimistic for Vista. Virtual Folders, USB memory management, BitLocker, faster installations, protected accounts (for preventing major virus damage), the overall user interface... it's great!
But we still have a way to go before it gets to 100% quality though :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey, I have personally tested vista and came to worse conclusions than Thurrott has....
I say this and mark my words: If Microsoft doesnt make some miracles happen, they are going to crash the whole company on this.
I could explain all the details why vista is a sick puppy... but I dont have the energy for that now....

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Here is the rebuttal: http://mediacenter.mattgoyer.com/archives/2006/04/20/1100
:) -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Why UAP is a good thing is simple, anything that executes needs permission. Which means both good code or bad code needs your permission. Microsoft is expecting the end user to read the dialogue, think through what they are doing before allowing something that might dangerous to the user.

Unfortunately, it's been well documented that, given too many dialog boxes requiring a response, users will start simply clicking the choice that will get them through the step without really understanding exactly what they're doing. The question then becomes, "How many is 'Too Many'?" Has Vista reached this threshold yet?
Tom Lake

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote:

Why UAP is a good thing is simple, anything that executes needs permission. Which means both good code or bad code needs your permission. Microsoft is expecting the end user to read the dialogue, think through what they are doing before allowing something that might dangerous to the user.

Marketing 101 says this UAP will never fly. MS is trying to go from basically no protection from outside attacks to constantly harassing the user sitting at the desktop. Stupid idea. It's an over reaction to security holes that have been present basically in IE for years. UAP does not correctly address the real problem of outside attacks. Leave the person at the desktop alone! Protect them from outside attacks. Don't think you can protect them from themselves. Frank

I do believe that the UX Guidelines will be properly addressed by the time Beta 2 is rolled out, so hopefully we won't see as many dialogs with UAP. But we'll have to wait and see :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "Frank" wrote in message

Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: Why UAP is a good thing is simple, anything that executes needs permission. Which means both good code or bad code needs your permission. Microsoft is expecting the end user to read the dialogue, think through what they are doing before allowing something that might dangerous to the user.
Marketing 101 says this UAP will never fly. MS is trying to go from basically no protection from outside attacks to constantly harassing the user sitting at the desktop. Stupid idea. It's an over reaction to security holes that have been present basically in IE for years. UAP does not correctly address the real problem of outside attacks. Leave the person at the desktop alone! Protect them from outside attacks. Don't think you can protect them from themselves. Frank

Zack Whittaker wrote:

I do believe that the UX Guidelines will be properly addressed by the time Beta 2 is rolled out, so hopefully we won't see as many dialogs with UAP. But we'll have to wait and see :o)
I'm holding my breath! :-)

Frank

By transparent do you mean that there should be no user interaction? Just say NO to everything?
If I've misunderstood, what is your solution?
--
Ed Sproull Windows Shell Team <std disclaimer>
"Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message

I never said I trust the kids in the school. I would hope to have trust in the teachers and administrators that put the restrictions on the PCs.
ROFL
:-)
Bottom line is, security has to be transparent, otherwise your system's already compromised.

Yes, it needs to be transparent, I don't think things like Defender, UAP should be so in your face. Could you have Defender placed under System Utilities? Its not something you are gonna access a lot. Also, like I said before, UAP needs to be strained out and thought out logically. Things like opening Device Manager, Speech or certain Control Panel items need UAP. Has Microsoft done studies to show that you can hack into your computer through certain Control Panel items? -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"Ed Sproull [MSFT]" wrote in message

By transparent do you mean that there should be no user interaction? Just say NO to everything?
If I've misunderstood, what is your solution?
--
Ed Sproull Windows Shell Team std disclaimer
"Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message I never said I trust the kids in the school. I would hope to have trust in the teachers and administrators that put the restrictions on the PCs.
ROFL
:-)
Bottom line is, security has to be transparent, otherwise your system's already compromised.

Tell your friend to Click Start > All Programs > Accessories > Run > type in MSCONFIG > click OK > select Tools (tab) > scroll down to Disable UAP > click Launch > Restart system. The Public BETA should be available in this quarter. -- Andre Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Frank" wrote in message Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: I think they threw UAP on everything in Vista, what they are doing now basically is to strain it out based on feedback.
I understand UAP will be implemented by default on the public beta. What a joke. I can already hear the outcry! Frank
One of my friends got to test the beta and they hated it. He couldn't get UAP to turn off. I haven't played with it yet but from what I heard it's a pain. When is it going public by the way? This month or not til next or not til June now?

In my Opinion: Microsoft definitely needs to give us MSDN Subscriber's something Newer than Build 5308 CTP (considering the fact that it is now over 2 month's old and out-dated code), and so that they can prove to us MSDN Subscriber's that Windows Vista (RTM) will be a worth-wile Operating System to Upgrade to (just as soon as it's no longer in Beta).
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

P.S. It (Build 5308 CTP) was compiled on Febuary 17, 2006 at 10:00 P.M. Microsoft Time (according to the WINVER command), so it really would be nice to have something newer then Build 5308 CTP.
"Kevin John Panzke" wrote in message

In my Opinion: Microsoft definitely needs to give us MSDN Subscriber's something Newer than Build 5308 CTP (considering the fact that it is now over 2 month's old and out-dated code), and so that they can prove to us MSDN Subscriber's that Windows Vista (RTM) will be a worth-wile Operating System to Upgrade to (just as soon as it's no longer in Beta).
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

Maybe you should stop complaining and wait like the rest of us. Be greatful that you have the version you have or just stop using it all together.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"Kevin John Panzke" wrote in message

P.S. It (Build 5308 CTP) was compiled on Febuary 17, 2006 at 10:00 P.M. Microsoft Time (according to the WINVER command), so it really would be nice to have something newer then Build 5308 CTP.
"Kevin John Panzke" wrote in message In my Opinion: Microsoft definitely needs to give us MSDN Subscriber's something Newer than Build 5308 CTP (considering the fact that it is now over 2 month's old and out-dated code), and so that they can prove to us MSDN Subscriber's that Windows Vista (RTM) will be a worth-wile Operating System to Upgrade to (just as soon as it's no longer in Beta).
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Where Vista fails
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp
Thumbs up to Thurrott! I like this guy!
I could add at least 10 reasons why Vista is horrible!

By transparent do you mean that there should be no user interaction? Just say NO to everything?
If I've misunderstood, what is your solution?

Ed,
If you take a step back and look at the problem as a whole, IMNSHO the problem stems from the fact that most people have NO idea how to even determine whether it's okay to let a legitimate program run, as opposed to malware. Common folk are the last people you should ask when the OS can't make an informed decision on its own. So yeah, I suppose what I'm saying is to disallow everything silently.
Of course, the problem then becomes one of unblocking the legitimate apps. It's the classic case of security vs convenience.
Honestly, I *don't* know what the solution is unless you wanna seriously depart from Microsoft's long history of trying not to break compatibility. I think the OS needs to be more "aware" of what's going on, what's trying to run, and as a result of what actions (user-action or otherwise), so it can decide on its own based on a logical context. Constantly being in the user's face isn't the solution, as people will develop the habit of simply allowing everything.
The trend I'm beginning to see is that Microsoft is slowly but surely positioning itself so it can eventually put the blame on the clueless users, and that's where it's going to start losing its audience.

In my Opinion: Microsoft definitely needs to give us MSDN Subscriber's something Newer than Build 5308 CTP (considering the fact that it is now over 2 month's old and out-dated code), and so that they can prove to us MSDN Subscriber's that Windows Vista (RTM) will be a worth-wile Operating System to Upgrade to (just as soon as it's no longer in Beta).

Kevin: Give it up. I don't think your opinion carries any weight in these newsgroups anymore.
PS - You're much more entertaining when you blow a gasket.

First let me be clear: I don't wrok on UAP and I'm pretty much seeing what you are seeing. I will admint that over the past year the amout of noise that I"m seeimg from UAP (still struggling not to call it LUA) has greatly deministhed. It seems now that it just pops up when something is seriously trying to install on the box.
The biggest security problem is that "everyone" is running as admin on their box. I'm guessing that everyone will still be in the admin group.
Thanks for your feedback and I'm hoping the UAP folks are watching also. :)
--
Ed Sproull Windows Shell Team <std disclaimer>
"Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message

By transparent do you mean that there should be no user interaction? Just say NO to everything?
If I've misunderstood, what is your solution?
Ed,
If you take a step back and look at the problem as a whole, IMNSHO the problem stems from the fact that most people have NO idea how to even determine whether it's okay to let a legitimate program run, as opposed to malware. Common folk are the last people you should ask when the OS can't make an informed decision on its own. So yeah, I suppose what I'm saying is to disallow everything silently.
Of course, the problem then becomes one of unblocking the legitimate apps. It's the classic case of security vs convenience.
Honestly, I *don't* know what the solution is unless you wanna seriously depart from Microsoft's long history of trying not to break compatibility. I think the OS needs to be more "aware" of what's going on, what's trying to run, and as a result of what actions (user-action or otherwise), so it can decide on its own based on a logical context. Constantly being in the user's face isn't the solution, as people will develop the habit of simply allowing everything.
The trend I'm beginning to see is that Microsoft is slowly but surely positioning itself so it can eventually put the blame on the clueless users, and that's where it's going to start losing its audience.

The biggest security problem is that "everyone" is running as admin on their box. I'm guessing that everyone will still be in the admin group.

Ain't that the truth.
A *lot* of old and even brand new apps won't install or run under a restricted user account; a lot of games won't even run because their copy protection scheme attempts to install some device driver. Etc, etc.
Generally, it's just "less hassle" to give up and run everything as admin. Windows has to take some blame for having fostered this sort of environment to begin with...to fix it, applications will have to be broken.

"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in

"Frank" wrote in message Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: I think they threw UAP on everything in Vista, what they are doing now basically is to strain it out based on feedback.
I understand UAP will be implemented by default on the public beta. What a joke. I can already hear the outcry! Frank
One of my friends got to test the beta and they hated it. He couldn't get UAP to turn off. I haven't played with it yet but from what I heard it's a pain. When is it going public by the way? This month or not til next or not til June now?

I played with Vista for a few hours and if by UAP you mean the OS asking you if you wsnt to allow X to run where X may be Windows' own networks dialog, then yeah that thing is very annoying as it is currently implemented. It seems MS's idea of security is to badger the users to the point where they will be afraid to touch anything in Windows.

Please keep in mind, that MS is still working on the UAP. They are aware of the fact of how many times it does pop up. I am looking forward to seeing what the Public Beta has in store.
-- Jason
Applied but still waiting to be accepted for the Vista Beta Testing group. Can't wait to be able to play and help make it even better.
http://www.orderpcs4free.com/?r=878
MS Windows XP Pro, IE 7.0.5335.5 Beta 2
"darius" wrote in message

"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in
"Frank" wrote in message Andre Da Costa [Extended64] wrote: I think they threw UAP on everything in Vista, what they are doing now basically is to strain it out based on feedback.
I understand UAP will be implemented by default on the public beta. What a joke. I can already hear the outcry! Frank
One of my friends got to test the beta and they hated it. He couldn't get UAP to turn off. I haven't played with it yet but from what I heard it's a pain. When is it going public by the way? This month or not til next or not til June now?

I played with Vista for a few hours and if by UAP you mean the OS asking you if you wsnt to allow X to run where X may be Windows' own networks dialog, then yeah that thing is very annoying as it is currently implemented. It seems MS's idea of security is to badger the users to the point where they will be afraid to touch anything in Windows.